[Bcma-l] YCW the only way to go?
bcma-l@museumsassn.bc.ca
bcma-l@museumsassn.bc.ca
Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:10:52 -0700
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June 22, 2009
=20
Hmm. On the one hand, like the authors who were pleased that they could
provide 9 weeks of work, we are always happy to have gained an
employee(s) for the summer. I have been working the grant system since
1980 and seen it go through changes from both the employee and employer
side (remember when BC had a student employment grant?). I have also
seen the Heritage Branch thriving and then shrink to almost nothing.
Inherent in the entire exercise has been a reliance on Government in one
form or another, of which flavour of the day has been the variety of
which we eat.
=20
What I think that you are stating Cuyler is that we need to establish a
review of the system not only in the context of what does not work, but
in the context of what will work for the community at large. I know
that lobbying has gone forward from the BCMA towards change, but do not
necessarily hear about how or what is being passed forward by our
society to the Governments. Since the Federal Government is the
principle agent of grants these days, I assume the lobbying has gone in
that direction.
=20
Should we be establishing some type of think tank around issues such as
funding within the BCMA? From some of the letters that have been posted
it would seem that some people are quite happy to have the opportunity
to follow the system as it is and that there is little concern - they
just adjust to the situation - apply for 16 weeks, only get 9, life goes
on. Is this a relevant issue to the community at large and if it is,
should we be taking this up with the executive of the Association to
establish position papers? Or, has this already occurred and is it just
a matter of brushing off the dust? For example, I have suggested the
establishment of a foundation to take over the role that Government now
appears to play - the benevolent benefactor. I have had people totally
dismiss this as an idea - mostly because they have had some experience
with foundations - but for which I have never been the beneficiary of
that experience - I have just seen some exceptional work carried out
through foundation funding and some extraordinary amounts of work
associated with Government funding (plus the timing issues). However, I
have had experiences with the system as it is for years and believe that
the system must be questioned and should be changed to be more on a
business year, if it is to be truly effective (as seen from both the
student and employer's end). I do believe that the ability of Young
Canada Works funding to be carried over to 2010-2011 (next Federal
fiscal year) will make a huge difference in applicants work load. I
also believe that if continued as a strategy, will lessen the 'over
subscription' issues that are arising. But, I also believe that the
museum community should set its own destiny, rather than being subject
to the funding flavour of the month, simply because it makes all museums
start to look alike and therefore not reflect the democratic and free
thinking that I personally would like to think of as a major legacy of
our country. I also think that a more local community of decision
makers would be useful, rather than relying on over worked
representatives of the Federal Government and might be more cognizant of
issues of concern to any particular museum or person thinking of
establishing a museum. And, in this, I do not mean having a jury of
peers (which it could be) to adjudicate funding, but one that might
establish the priorities based on the particular need of the museums
themselves - not 10 years to establish web sites, or to hire particular
people in generic terms for the entire country. For example, while one
museum may need operational assistance, another might need capital
funding. One might need a conservation plan and another, funds for
implementation of a plan, something that would allow for bringing up
aspects of the particular museum that might need attention. To a degree,
the grants administered by Heritage Canada try to address these issue,
but even though I apply and have had funding, I feel the process is a
million miles away and of little concern to the people to whom I am
applying.
=20
The one thing about the granting system that presently exists is this
feeling that when making an application, I am sending out a shark and
the pot of money is a bloody corps over which we linger because of the
smell of blood that is left over. And, if it was structured into a
Foundation, would it be any different? =20
=20
W. (Bill) G. Quackenbush,
Wells Historical Society
email: Bill.Quackenbush@barkerville.ca
=20
________________________________
From: bcma-l-admin@museumsassn.bc.ca
[mailto:bcma-l-admin@museumsassn.bc.ca]=20
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:31 AM
To: bcma-l@museumsassn.bc.ca
Subject: Re: [Bcma-l] YCW the only way to go?
=20
Hi Bill,
=20
I totally agree with you. As I tried to say at the start, the programs
themselves need to be critiqued because they make it difficult to meet
their stated goals very well, especially when the notifications are so
ill timed. Yup, yup, and yup.
=20
As to Bessy, instead of serving at the Burger Joint, I thought you were
going to say she was being served there.
=20
=20
Cheers,
Cuyler
=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: bcma-l-admin@museumsassn.bc.ca=20
To: bcma-l@museumsassn.bc.ca=20
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 6:56 PM
Subject: RE: [Bcma-l] YCW the only way to go?
=20
June 19, 2009
=20
Cuyler, I just do not buy your argument. While the
representatives of the Government can go back to the mandate, it still
does not serve the community it is trying to reach if the Government
continues down the road of waiting for funds to be approved until
mid-May. The representative does not have any say in this aspect and
therefore have to respond with the mandate. It still does not make any
sense. If the goal is to teach people to have new skills, then it
should be carried out in a timely, businesslike fashion that complements
the employer's needs. And, if it is the teaching element that is the
main idea, from a 'teachers' perspective, I think that there should be
equitable pay for the teachers - and there is no support for that within
the grants. We do not fall into the frustration, but are forced into
it. I spend considerable amounts of time volunteering, which my real
job supports. What about those who could be teaching, who do not have a
job?
=20
Why shouldn't grants meet our purposes? As that presentation you
refer to most likely pointed out is the value that cultural institutions
and programs added to the Gross National Product, over and above the
cost to the tax payer. And, as far as creativity in discussions with
the Federal Government go; look where that presentation disappeared.
The main reason I have entered into this discussion is to propose
alternatives to the present system, as it is failing our community and
therefore failing the people the funds were set out to assist. It is
impossible to provide a good learning experience when you do not know
when or if it is going to happen until most museums are in the middle of
their busy period, let alone the hiring process. One of the principle
issues is the bad timing for these programs. Also, how many small
museums would be able to function without this type of funding? While
museums do not encompass the entire cultural community, are the issues
similar? Even in the somewhat larger institutions, having to switch
gears to teaching 'during the summer' is also the worst time, as that is
generally the busiest time for most in an under funded and over
volunteered community. I would hope that a positive suggestion for
change would not encompass having things stay the same.
=20
I agree that the seeking for any change must encompass the
Cultural sector, but we must reach some type of consensus for what the
goals would be or else we are thrashing around in the dark. Should we
be asking questions such as:
=20
Is it important that Museums and other aspects of the Cultural
sector actually be lumped into the same group?
Should the Cultural or Museum community continue be tied to
Government for funding?
Is there a way to change the thinking so that Government is not
the key element in success?
Is it Government's role to tell the Canadian community of
peoples how to think about things or what we should be teaching by
angling grants to 'feel good' priorities?
What happens when scarce resources are spent finding a person
willing to learn?
If the grants are truly oriented to increasing skills and
knowledge, why not put the funds into focused internships that will
address issues such as replacement of retiring members of whatever
community that the jobs are coming from?
=20
We could be using this list serve to discuss platforms for
positive change, but is that the purpose of this list serve? Can
anything positive come out of discussions such as this or it just
another way to complain about the weather over the fence (yup looks like
another thunder storm [grant], better get the cows [students] into the
barn [museum], hmmm, where's Bessy [serving now at the burger joint
because it pays more and there is a more business like approval
process])?
=20
W. (Bill) G. Quackenbush,
Wells Historical Society
email: Bill.Quackenbush@barkerville.ca
=20
=09
________________________________
From: bcma-l-admin@museumsassn.bc.ca
[mailto:bcma-l-admin@museumsassn.bc.ca]=20
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 2:23 PM
To: bcma-l@museumsassn.bc.ca
Subject: Re: [Bcma-l] YCW the only way to go?
=20
Serving the Client (but, who is the client?). The reality is
that we serve HRDC and YCW, not the other way around. (This is not said
as a complaint.)
=20
What stands out in most of the criticisms of YCW and HRDC
employment programs is the lack of critique based on the stated goals of
the programs, chiefly, to provide students with opportunities to
personally develop employable skills. The current programs are
obviously not in place to "help" museums during the busy summer season.
=20
Employers such as museums speak of looking for the best
qualified candidates to do their museum work. If the programs are
there to teach and empower new job skills in the employees, then perhaps
we should be looking to hire the least qualified candidates. The main
qualification should be a willingness to learn new skills for future
employment. A passion or eagerness for the museum realm might help
sort out the final candidates based on their dedicated professional
goals and what we have to offer.
=20
In consulting with project officers of HRDC employment programs
over many years, they continue to say the same thing again and again,
"We are not here to help your museum do museum work, we are here to
facilitate the training of employment skills, especially transferable
skills. To be successful with our grants, you should see yourselves as
trainers of youth or the unemployed. That is what the grants are for."
Unfortunately it is too easy to slip into feeling frustrated when the
grants do not meet "our" purposes. Think how frustrated the HRDC folks
must feel when they have to respond to calls about why some important
museum or archive project was not supported.
=20
There was a time when that frustration shifted to creativity,
due to "effective" lobbying of the Federal government. In the 1980s,
the CMA created a fabulous multi-media presentation to sell the idea of
Federal government support to the cultural sector based on measurable
and dramatically illustrated economic spin-off and payback. It was said
to have been so successful when presented to the Federal Cabinet, that
Federal employment programs were then modified and tailored to
facilitate success by cultural organizations. The success of that
presentation was because even though it was created by CMA, it was not
self-serving just for the museum community, but for the cultural sector
as a whole. It was backed up by significant research and measurements.
It has long been time to revisit that approach to our governments, but
sadly there is no corporate memory of that presentation at CMA. I have
asked, and the original is not available for inspiration or review. It
appears to have been lost and forgotten over time. I am not suggesting
just getting it out for re-showing to our current government(s), but
rather using it as an example of a successful tool for facilitating
change to our favour.
=20
=20
Cuyler Page
Craigflower Historic Site
Victoria, BC
=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: bcma-l-admin@museumsassn.bc.ca=20
To: bcma-l@museumsassn.bc.ca=20
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:15 AM
Subject: RE: [Bcma-l] YCW the only way to go?
=20
Hi Bill;
=20
I was struck by your comments. I just wanted to note
that you summarized the frustration with YCW very well. We have all
learned how to 'manage the system' but not always to satisfactory
results on our side. The match between best candidate for the positions
we create often lost due to timing, not necessarily funding. How sad.
I echo your cringing on the staggering cost of new museums being built
to a standard we could all only dream of and the hopeless feeling that
if such significant funding goes to new mega museums how can we ever
achieve our much more conservative funding needs and how tiring it is to
always struggle with pennies in comparison. I appreciated that you gave
thought to suggesting new models and frameworks to consider as this is
the most difficult part of any challenge; finding workable solutions.
Thanks for the comments.
=20
Kirstin Clausen, BC Museum of Mining.
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<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>June 22, 2009<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Hmm. On the one hand, like the authors who were pleased =
that they
could provide 9 weeks of work, we are always happy to have gained an =
employee(s)
for the summer. I have been working the grant system since 1980 =
and seen
it go through changes from both the employee and employer side (remember =
when
BC had a student employment grant?). I have also seen the Heritage =
Branch
thriving and then shrink to almost nothing. Inherent in the entire
exercise has been a reliance on Government in one form or another, of =
which
flavour of the day has been the variety of which we =
eat.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>What I think that you are stating Cuyler is that we need to =
establish a
review of the system not only in the context of what does not work, but =
in the
context of what will work for the community at large. I know that
lobbying has gone forward from the BCMA towards change, but do not =
necessarily
hear about how or what is being passed forward by our society to the
Governments. Since the Federal Government is the principle agent =
of grants
these days, I assume the lobbying has gone in that =
direction.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Should we be establishing some type of think tank around issues =
such as
funding within the BCMA? From some of the letters that have been =
posted
it would seem that some people are quite happy to have the opportunity =
to
follow the system as it is and that there is little concern – they =
just
adjust to the situation – apply for 16 weeks, only get 9, life =
goes
on. Is this a relevant issue to the community at large and if it =
is,
should we be taking this up with the executive of the Association to =
establish
position papers? Or, has this already occurred and is it just a =
matter of
brushing off the dust? For example, I have suggested the =
establishment of
a foundation to take over the role that Government now appears to play =
–
the benevolent benefactor. I have had people totally dismiss this =
as an
idea – mostly because they have had some experience with =
foundations –
but for which I have never been the beneficiary of that experience =
– I have
just seen some exceptional work carried out through foundation funding =
and some
extraordinary amounts of work associated with Government funding (plus =
the
timing issues). However, I have had experiences with the system as =
it is
for years and believe that the system must be questioned and should be =
changed
to be more on a business year, if it is to be truly effective (as seen =
from
both the student and employer’s end). I do believe that the =
ability
of Young Canada Works funding to be carried over to 2010-2011 (next =
Federal
fiscal year) will make a huge difference in applicants work load. =
I also
believe that if continued as a strategy, will lessen the ‘over
subscription’ issues that are arising. But, I also believe that =
the
museum community should set its own destiny, rather than being subject =
to the
funding flavour of the month, simply because it makes all museums start =
to look
alike and therefore not reflect the democratic and free thinking that I
personally would like to think of as a major legacy of our =
country. I
also think that a more local community of decision makers would be =
useful, rather
than relying on over worked representatives of the Federal Government =
and might
be more cognizant of issues of concern to any particular museum or =
person
thinking of establishing a museum. And, in this, I do not mean =
having a
jury of peers (which it could be) to adjudicate funding, but one that =
might
establish the priorities based on the particular need of the museums =
themselves
– not 10 years to establish web sites, or to hire particular =
people in
generic terms for the entire country. For example, while one =
museum may
need operational assistance, another might need capital funding. =
One
might need a conservation plan and another, funds for implementation of =
a plan,
something that would allow for bringing up aspects of the particular =
museum
that might need attention. To a degree, the grants administered by =
Heritage <st1:country-region
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">Canada</st1:place></st1:country-region> try to
address these issue, but even though I apply and have had funding, I =
feel the
process is a million miles away and of little concern to the people to =
whom I
am applying.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>The one thing about the granting system that presently exists is =
this
feeling that when making an application, I am sending out a shark and =
the pot
of money is a bloody corps over which we linger because of the smell of =
blood
that is left over. And, if it was structured into a Foundation, =
would it
be any different? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>W. (Bill) G. Quackenbush,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Wells Historical Society<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>email: =
Bill.Quackenbush@barkerville.ca<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
bcma-l-admin@museumsassn.bc.ca
[mailto:bcma-l-admin@museumsassn.bc.ca] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, June 22, =
2009 11:31
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">bcma-l@museumsassn.bc.ca</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Bcma-l] YCW =
the only
way to go?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hi Bill,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I totally agree with you. As I tried to =
say at
the start, the programs themselves need to be critiqued because =
they make
it difficult to meet their stated goals very well, especially =
when
the notifications are so ill timed. Yup, yup, and =
yup.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>As to Bessy, instead of serving at the Burger Joint, =
I
thought you were going to say she was being served =
there.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Cheers,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Cuyler</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style=3D'font-color:black'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span=
></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href=3D"mailto:bcma-l-admin@museumsassn.bc.ca"
title=3D"bcma-l-admin@museumsassn.bc.ca">bcma-l-admin@museumsassn.bc.ca</=
a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href=3D"mailto:bcma-l@museumsassn.bc.ca" =
title=3D"bcma-l@museumsassn.bc.ca">bcma-l@museumsassn.bc.ca</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Friday, =
June 19,
2009 6:56 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> RE: =
[Bcma-l] YCW
the only way to go?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>June 19, 2009<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Cuyler, I just do not buy your argument. While the
representatives of the Government can go back to the mandate, it still =
does not
serve the community it is trying to reach if the Government continues =
down the
road of waiting for funds to be approved until mid-May. The
representative does not have any say in this aspect and therefore have =
to
respond with the mandate. It still does not make any sense. =
If the
goal is to teach people to have new skills, then it should be carried =
out in a
timely, businesslike fashion that complements the employer’s =
needs.
And, if it is the teaching element that is the main idea, from a =
‘teachers’
perspective, I think that there should be equitable pay for the teachers
– and there is no support for that within the grants. We do =
not
fall into the frustration, but are forced into it. I spend =
considerable
amounts of time volunteering, which my real job supports. What =
about
those who could be teaching, who do not have a =
job?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Why shouldn’t grants meet our purposes? As that =
presentation you
refer to most likely pointed out is the value that cultural institutions =
and
programs added to the Gross National Product, over and above the cost to =
the
tax payer. And, as far as creativity in discussions with the =
Federal
Government go; look where that presentation disappeared. The main =
reason
I have entered into this discussion is to propose alternatives to the =
present
system, as it is failing our community and therefore failing the people =
the
funds were set out to assist. It is impossible to provide a good =
learning
experience when you do not know when or if it is going to happen until =
most
museums are in the middle of their busy period, let alone the hiring
process. One of the principle issues is the bad timing for these
programs. Also, how many small museums would be able to function =
without
this type of funding? While museums do not encompass the entire =
cultural
community, are the issues similar? Even in the somewhat larger
institutions, having to switch gears to teaching ‘during the
summer’ is also the worst time, as that is generally the busiest =
time for
most in an under funded and over volunteered community. I would =
hope that
a positive suggestion for change would not encompass having things stay =
the
same.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>I agree that the seeking for any change must encompass the =
Cultural
sector, but we must reach some type of consensus for what the goals =
would be or
else we are thrashing around in the dark. Should we be asking =
questions
such as:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Is it important that Museums and other aspects of the Cultural =
sector
actually be lumped into the same group?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Should the Cultural or Museum community continue be tied to =
Government
for funding?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Is there a way to change the thinking so that Government is not =
the key
element in success?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Is it Government’s role to tell the Canadian community of =
peoples
how to think about things or what we should be teaching by angling =
grants to
‘feel good’ priorities?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>What happens when scarce resources are spent finding a person =
willing
to learn?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>If the grants are truly oriented to increasing skills and =
knowledge,
why not put the funds into focused internships that will address issues =
such as
replacement of retiring members of whatever community that the jobs are =
coming
from?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>We could be using this list serve to discuss platforms for =
positive
change, but is that the purpose of this list serve? Can anything =
positive come
out of discussions such as this or it just another way to complain about =
the
weather over the fence (yup looks like another thunder storm [grant], =
better
get the cows [students] into the barn [museum], hmmm, where’s =
Bessy
[serving now at the burger joint because it pays more and there is a =
more
business like approval process])?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>W. (Bill) G. Quackenbush,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Wells Historical Society<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>email: =
Bill.Quackenbush@barkerville.ca<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
bcma-l-admin@museumsassn.bc.ca [mailto:bcma-l-admin@museumsassn.bc.ca] =
<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, June 19, =
2009 2:23 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">bcma-l@museumsassn.bc.ca</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Bcma-l] YCW =
the only
way to go?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Serving the Client (but, who is the =
client?). The
reality is that we serve HRDC and YCW, not the other way
around. (This is not said as a =
complaint.)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>What stands out in most of the criticisms of YCW and =
HRDC
employment programs is the lack of critique based on the stated goals of =
the
programs, chiefly, to provide students with opportunities to personally =
develop
employable skills. The current programs are obviously not in =
place
to "help" museums during the busy summer =
season.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Employers such as museums speak of looking =
for the
best qualified candidates to do their museum work. If the =
programs
are there to teach and empower new job skills in the employees, then =
perhaps we
should be looking to hire the least qualified =
candidates.
The main qualification should be a willingness to learn new =
skills
for future employment. A passion or eagerness for the =
museum
realm might help sort out the final candidates based on their =
dedicated
professional goals and what we have to =
offer.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>In consulting with project officers of HRDC =
employment
programs over many years, they continue to say the same thing again and =
again, <em><i><font
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>"We are not here to =
help your
museum do museum work, we are here to facilitate the training of
employment skills, especially transferable skills. To be =
successful with
our grants, you should see yourselves as trainers of youth or the
unemployed. That is what the grants are =
for."</span></font></i></em>
Unfortunately it is too easy to slip into feeling frustrated when the =
grants do
not meet "our" purposes. Think how frustrated the =
HRDC
folks must feel when they have to respond to calls about why some =
important
museum or archive project was not =
supported.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>There was a time when that frustration shifted to
creativity, due to "effective" lobbying of the Federal
government. In the 1980s, the CMA created a fabulous =
multi-media
presentation to sell the idea of Federal government support to the =
cultural sector
based on measurable and dramatically illustrated economic spin-off and
payback. It was said to have been so successful when presented to =
the
Federal Cabinet, that Federal employment programs were then =
modified and
tailored to facilitate success by cultural =
organizations. The
success of that presentation was because even though it was created =
by
CMA, it was not self-serving just for the museum community, but for =
the
cultural sector as a whole. It was backed up by significant =
research and
measurements. It has long been time to revisit that =
approach
to our governments, but sadly there is no corporate memory of that =
presentation
at CMA. I have asked, and the original is not =
available
for inspiration or review. It appears to have been =
lost and
forgotten over time. I am not suggesting just getting it
out for re-showing to our current government(s), but rather =
using it
as an example of a successful tool for facilitating change to our =
favour.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Cuyler Page</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Craigflower Historic =
Site</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on"><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Victoria</span></font></st1:=
City><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>, <st1:State
w:st=3D"on">BC</st1:State></span></font></st1:place><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style=3D'font-color:black'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span=
></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href=3D"mailto:bcma-l-admin@museumsassn.bc.ca"
title=3D"bcma-l-admin@museumsassn.bc.ca">bcma-l-admin@museumsassn.bc.ca</=
a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href=3D"mailto:bcma-l@museumsassn.bc.ca" =
title=3D"bcma-l@museumsassn.bc.ca">bcma-l@museumsassn.bc.ca</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Friday, =
June 19,
2009 10:15 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> RE: =
[Bcma-l] YCW
the only way to go?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Calibri'>Hi Bill;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Calibri'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Calibri'>I was struck by your comments. I just wanted =
to note
that you summarized the frustration with YCW very well. We =
have all
learned how to ‘manage the system’ but not always to =
satisfactory
results on our side. The match between best candidate for the =
positions
we create often lost due to timing, not necessarily funding. How
sad. I echo your cringing on the staggering cost of new museums =
being
built to a standard we could all only dream of and the hopeless feeling =
that if
such significant funding goes to new mega museums how can we ever =
achieve our
much more conservative funding needs and how tiring it is to always =
struggle
with pennies in comparison. I appreciated that you gave thought to
suggesting new models and frameworks to consider as this is the most =
difficult
part of any challenge; finding workable solutions. Thanks for the
comments.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Calibri'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><st1:City w:st=3D"on"><font size=3D2 =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>Kirstin =
Clausen</span></font></st1:City><font
size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>, <st1:State
w:st=3D"on">BC</st1:State> <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceType =
w:st=3D"on">Museum</st1:PlaceType>
of <st1:PlaceName =
w:st=3D"on">Mining</st1:PlaceName></st1:place>.<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
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